Kurts
Prince
Posts: 3,760
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Post by Kurts on Dec 2, 2015 0:00:12 GMT -5
Aslaug brings a fertile womb and a lineage that gives Ragnar prestige. Both of these things make her an infinitely more valuable wife than Lagertha considering the period it is set in.
I find it amusing that folks can watch Ragnar slaughter defenseless Christians and participate in rituals of human sacrifice without batting an eyelash, but lose their shit when he does something anti-feminist...
Also, Hannigram just sounds like a Santagram...but with cannibalism.
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Post by Robyn Stark on Dec 2, 2015 2:30:33 GMT -5
I think you're being a bit unfair, the reason people are "horrified" is that when Ragnar sacrifices people, then when he leaves lagertha, he is doing it to someone close to him. Sacrifice and slaughter are fairly accepted traits of Vikings, but when we see his close relationship, for him to just disregard them shows real ruthlessness, after all people were cool with the sacrifice... UNTIL HE WAS SACRIFICING ATHELSTAN!!!!
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Post by Leona Redwyne on Dec 2, 2015 3:21:11 GMT -5
Lyonel, I am just not that comfortable with polyamory especially if all parties are not ok with it.
As for the rest, I've said my piece. That's my view and I am not going to fight about it. Certainly not going to feel bad about it.
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Post by Robyn Stark on Dec 2, 2015 8:22:03 GMT -5
I didn't think this was a fight, more a discussion. Zack being a bum hole us just a given now
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Post by Marlow on Dec 2, 2015 10:46:10 GMT -5
Sacrifice and slaughter are fairly accepted traits of Vikings, So is marrying for prestige and legacy, polygamy, and rape. Just sayin.
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Kurts
Prince
Posts: 3,760
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Post by Kurts on Dec 3, 2015 21:08:16 GMT -5
I'm not being a "bum hole." Just playing devil's advocate. Ignoring modern morality in order to suspend disbelief while watching a period piece when it comes to murder and human sacrifice, but then sticking to it when it comes to monogamy, feminism, and taking offense in realistic portrayal of the period's patriarchal values is interesting. Obviously, this is a conflict that comes up often when watching most period pieces (or judging historical figures in general), but I always find it amusing to note what issues people are willing to suspend their modern morality for the sake of the period drama for and what issues they aren't.
Harwyn beat me to it, but that's the crux of the matter. The patriarchal need for sons was just as much an accepted and defining trait as sacrifice and slaughter. Obviously it's part of the drama when characters the audience cares about are wronged or put in peril, like Lagertha and Athelstan. Feeling bad for Lagertha is understandable, but I always found it odd to judge a character, in this case Ragnar, for adhering to the social norms of his period and culture. I mean, what options did he have that wouldn't result in disliking him by modern standards of gender equality? "It's ok that you can't have children Lagertha. We'll adopt."
There's no "wrong" reaction here. Some folks can separate their own moral bias from history/historical drama and others can't. I just always found this fascinating and think it's an issue worth discussion. I mean, in America at least it's still a common debate, most recently with the whole Confederate flag shitstorm. Do you judge Thomas Jefferson for having slaves in a period in history and culture where that was an accepted if not socioeconomic requirement of an agrarian? By standards of his period he was a great man. By modern standards he was arguably a monster. What do you judge him by? There's not really a right answer, just opinion. Marie and I just happen to fall on opposite sides of the dichotomy.
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Post by Robyn Stark on Dec 4, 2015 1:22:37 GMT -5
I don't think either of us said it was wrong to include it, in as much as the semi legendary figure if Ragnar can be considered true, they should stick to it.
All we are saying is that you can judge cultures on what they've done, accepting they have done them, and still thinking the actions were wrong. No one wants to remove the beheading of Anne Boleyn from the history books, and we know you can "justify" it historically, but that doesn't mean the guy was not a gaunt arsehole for doing it.
We judge other cultures and learn, how the hell do you think society ever progresses?
Yes, you can think Jefferson was both okay for one thing and an asshole for being a slaver, cultural norms can't be ignored from a modern perspective. At one point a man could rape beat torture and kill his wife for little provocation, are you expecting people to go "oh, must be a swell guy keeping to what his time period proscribes as acceptable behaviour!"
Often in tv abhorrent things happen, o get a negative reaction, people are disgusted at Joffrey, even though really, he was just doing shit a medieval King pre manga Carter was cool to be doing.
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Post by Lord Lyonel Vikary on Dec 4, 2015 16:16:56 GMT -5
Lyonel, I am just not that comfortable with polyamory especially if all parties are not ok with it. But if they are ok with it? As for me, it doesn't really worry me. A bit like same-sex marriage. Each to their own. What riles me is sections of society, such as religious groups, who try and moralise that there is only one method of co-habitation between humans and that any other is sinful and wrong. If both parties are ok with the arrangements they have, who am I to deny them? In any case, Polyamory seems to have been the accepted norm in many human cultures.
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Post by Marlow on Dec 14, 2015 20:42:47 GMT -5
JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE JASON ICE
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Kurts
Prince
Posts: 3,760
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Post by Kurts on Dec 22, 2015 11:35:23 GMT -5
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Post by Claire on Dec 23, 2015 4:47:51 GMT -5
I already sent you coal, Zack. Where is everyone playing lately?
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Post by The Forgotten God on Dec 23, 2015 16:13:02 GMT -5
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Post by Leona Redwyne on Dec 24, 2015 14:15:35 GMT -5
Merry Christmas all!
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Post by The Forgotten God on Feb 5, 2016 9:22:32 GMT -5
BElgium for the weekend...back Sunday!
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Post by Leona Redwyne on Feb 5, 2016 14:27:18 GMT -5
BElgium for the weekend...back Sunday! Have fun. Drink lots of Belgian beer and eat lots of Belgian Chocolate.
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