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Post by Amelia Royce on May 19, 2015 12:54:57 GMT -5
I haven't seen the episode yet but I know exactly how it pans out from reading about it. Yeah, pretty shitty thing to do but I'm guessing they're also using it to force Sansa into "revenge-mode"? Still a bit iffy. I think they probably panned to Theon though not to only show his reaction but also to... not have to make people see it.
Also, this is totally in line with the books. The books are worse. GRRM makes Jeyne Poole have sex with a dog. Not excusing what happens on the show but that is way worse. I'll also add that when Theon got his dick cut off people were making fun memes about Ramsay eating the sausage. I don't think Sansa being raped was a good decision but some of the fallout is a little bit... questionable.
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Kurts
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Post by Kurts on May 19, 2015 12:55:32 GMT -5
Well you could argue it did serve a purpose. I mean, up to this point Sansa always barely escapes something awful. The last physically horrible thing to happen to her was when she was beaten by Meryn Trant. After that she was more or less under the protection of either Tyrion or Littlefinger. That the bottom dropped out in Winterfell, where she should feel safe, is fairly noteworthy thematically.
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Post by Queen Joanna Lannister on May 19, 2015 12:56:53 GMT -5
It seems to be one of their favourite lazy plot devices, seeing as the Drogo/Dany and Cersei/Jaime scenes were also turned into rape.
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Post by Amelia Royce on May 19, 2015 12:58:19 GMT -5
To be fair, Dany and Drogo was never entirely consensual at first in the books anyway.
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Post by Amelia Royce on May 19, 2015 13:00:38 GMT -5
Another problem with it is that Sansa has been dealt so much shit but finally she was being built up to become a schemer. Finally she was getting somewhere but NOPE! Rape. Stupid.
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Kurts
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Post by Kurts on May 19, 2015 13:00:49 GMT -5
And Cersei/Jaime wasn't intentional. That was the fault of the editor.
And being raped doesn't mean she can't be a schemer...
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Post by Robyn Stark on May 19, 2015 13:01:59 GMT -5
Well you could argue it did serve a purpose. I mean, up to this point Sansa always barely escapes something awful. The last physically horrible thing to happen to her was when she was beaten by Meryn Trant. After that she was more or less under the protection of either Tyrion or Littlefinger. That the bottom dropped out in Winterfell, where she should feel safe, is fairly noteworthy thematically. As if we needed telling she was in danger being married to Ramsay Bolton? I am sure he would otherwise make a fine husband? the "subtle" threats he's been giving and this miranda person have told enough. Being married to him is awful enough, and she hasn't escaped anything. She's had to bear the full brunt of huge emotional trauma, maybe she's not been horrifically physically attacked in a while, but I do not think that lessens what she has been through, which is a horrific ordeal. Even worse, it happened after she had found some strength again, on her own. But D&D could not let that last.
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Post by Amelia Royce on May 19, 2015 13:02:06 GMT -5
No, but it just clashes with the development of the character. She was finally growing, becoming confident and then she gets fucked over again. It's just dumb and pointless at this point.
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Post by Robyn Stark on May 19, 2015 13:03:55 GMT -5
Dany and drogo is fully consensual the first time, in the books. Rape in the show. Cersei and Jaime can be argued to be rape in both. This... has no book comparison.. so we can never know.
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Post by Amelia Royce on May 19, 2015 13:07:16 GMT -5
Huh, been a while since I've read the books, though you could argue that the situation she was in made it hard to be really consensual. Forcefully married off into a completely strange culture. Then again that happened a lot. Guess you can't judge that part entirely by modern standards.
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Post by Queen Joanna Lannister on May 19, 2015 13:08:42 GMT -5
How was the editor at fault when Cersei clearly said 'no'?
The point is, they do the same thing all the time, throw what little character development there might have been out of the window (Jaime, Dany, now Sansa). Also, there was no reason to add more 'fuel' into Sansa's hatred against the Boltons, pretty sure that was already at capacity. It's kinda obvious this scene was thrown in just for the sake of it. It's incredibly lazy writing.
I'm not even gonna start with the other things wrong with this show, or I'd be stuck to my laptop the whole night :'D
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Post by Robyn Stark on May 19, 2015 13:08:48 GMT -5
Well, it's complicated with the language, but he never makes a move on her, until she puts his hands on her and says "yes"
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Kurts
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Post by Kurts on May 19, 2015 13:09:29 GMT -5
"Fully consensual" is a bit of a stretch for Drogo and Dany's sex life. It was pretty rapey at first.
My point was that it showed Sansa has no safety net now. She has to play the game or be the victim. Agree or disagree with the way they nailed that point home. I think it was a bit heavy-handed but I at least see the point. Besides shock value of course.
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Post by Leona Redwyne on May 19, 2015 13:09:35 GMT -5
But do we REALLY need to see Sansa victimised yet again first? I don't think we did. I w3as reading something yesterday about when Jeyne is the victim then it's about Theon's story, not Jeyne herself, which I agree with, as he's the POV. That's bad enough but I object strongly to making Sansa a victim yet again for the sake of Theon's arc. To me Sansa is more important than Theon. Having said that I MIGHT forgive them if this plot twist results in Frey Pie. Or even Ramsay pie, since we haven't heard from the Freys in ages.
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Post by Leona Redwyne on May 19, 2015 13:13:56 GMT -5
Also, in the books Dany and Drogo's first sexual encounter is as close to consensual as it can ever get when she's been forced into marriage against her will but the sex that happens afterwards is definitely not consensual. There's a whole section about how Dany struggled with her new life, including the rough sex inflicted on her by Drogo, and she even contemplated suicide, before she began to enjoy her new life and took charge of her own sexuality. The sex depicted in the show channels that part of Dany's life, I believe, but I still think it would have been nice if they made the first time consensual.
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